We still have a fight on our hands

On Saturday McKellen was on the EuroPride march where he spoke to half-a-million people. "It's a gathering of LGBTs - lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transsexuals, to be exact," he says. "The march was just like Gay Pride but this year it was special because the Euro-Pride march is held in different capital cities. Last year, it was in Oslo. It used to be political, about repealing Section 28 or supporting civil partnerships, but this year it was more of a celebration."

Why was that? "Because so much has changed," he says. "When I was as much as 27 years old, you could not make love legally to another man. It was still illegal in Ireland and Scotland until the Eighties. Now homosexuality is not just legal but you can 'marry' here. As such, your partner and you can adopt children, and there is legislation going through which will make sure that gay couples cannot be discriminated against when booking into hotels, for example." This is all a far cry from when he was growing up in Wigan, the son of Denis, a civil engineer, and Lois, who died of breast cancer when he was 12. His father then remarried to Gladys, to whom McKellen is very close. In the past he has said, "I was so glad I came out. My stepmother said to me: 'Thank goodness you're not living a lie now.'"

Other people, however, kept telling him his career would crash and burn. "People always say to me, 'Why did you come out? Didn't you think it would ruin your career?' But of course I did not think that at all. I don't want to be cut off from heterosexuality. I think it's a fascinating little phenomenon. I couldn't play Magneto or Macbeth if I did not want to continue that side to my acting repertoire. But, yes, I also have a side of my work which is gay."

Some people point to his flamboyant, highly enjoyable turn as Sir Leigh Teabing and his camping it up in his evil cape in X-Men: The Last Stand. "What's interesting in X-Men is that the Marvel people (the creators of the X-Men comic strip) say that they aim it towards young black men and young gay men. In XMen 2 a boy 'comes out" as a Mutant and in X-Men 3 they find a cure for it - and some people, namely the Scientologists, believe there IS a cure for [homosexuality]. Mad, isn't it? It's a nasty world, you see." But, it has changed for the better, he says. "One of my main concerns is for schoolchildren who think they are gay and get bullied in the playground. Gay now has a new definition. Young people use it to mean rubbish - how awful is it for a young adolescent boy or girl to think that they are rubbish?

"Schools and school teachers need to be trained how to help these children. If you can't go to your parents or church or youth club, who else can you confide in? Teachers need to know how to be understanding and proactive. I was one of the speakers in Trafalgar Square at the weekend and I suggested we abandon that word and use another word beginning with G. Gorgeous. I said: 'Look at me. I am gorgeous!"

Did he feel gorgeous as a child then? "No," he said." I wasn't bullied because I did not reveal how I felt. I mean, I suppose I knew I was gay at about the same time others know they are heterosexual. I was attracted to my own sex and not the other, but there was not much I could do about it and it was a lonely life.

"Actually, I think we're all probably bisexual but we make choices in the world and that was mine. It was only when I went to university that I met other men who felt the same way as I did, but, still, we were a pretty downtrodden lot. Our heads and hearts were not in good shape. Everything was secretive.

"There were no gay nightclubs or bars. Can you imagine how dreadful it was to walk into a room and not know who was gay or not, to look someone up and down and then think: 'Was there a glimmer in his eye?' It was all difficult. We called ourselves queer. What does that mean? We were just normal people being made to feel as if we were abnormal in our own skin."

He gravitated towards acting through his sister Jean, who died of a head injury some years ago. She used to take him to the theatre. "I used to go and see the variety shows at the theatre in Bolton and I loved them."

With this in mind, he also pulled off the triumphant feat of pulling together a cast of 253 actors, performers and musicians who took over the Royal Albert Hall last night for EuroPride06 - The Show.

"It was a real knees-up," he says. "But it was a nightmare to organise really. Every morning I would wake up and think, 'Oh God, what's wrong?' and then I'd remember I was responsible for sorting out this night's entertainment."

It sounds as if it was very impressive, though. He had Stephen Fry compering one half and Sandi Toksvig the other. He also got Graham Norton, Julian Clary, Boy George, Carrie Fisher, Ruby Wax, Billy Jean King - "lesbians' favourite icon," he says - and his old friend Elton John involved. "It was a fantastic night and a sentimental occasion when our little group took over the nation's concert hall for a night. I think feeling better about oneself is a good use of theatre."

Is this why he became an actor in the first place? "I think that if you cannot be openly emotional in your own life, then to be able to be an actor and publicly be able to use your full emotional range is very enticing."

He says that there are lots of American gay actors who will probably never "come out" because they, or their agents and the Hollywood studios who work with them, are terrified they will lose their fan base.

"Some of them are Oscar nominees!" he says. "The Right-wing establishment in the States thinks Hollywood is heaving with liberals but it is not. They only tolerate me because they think I am English and eccentric. The received idea is that if you come out, you are done for."

But haven't films such as Brokeback Mountain changed anything? "No!" he says, hooting with mirth. "I thought that film was pretty mainstream, actually. It really would have broken the mould if one of the lead actors actually had been gay. Now that would have been something!"

Could this happen? "Oh yes. A young openly gay actor will come along and he'll light everything up. I am sure of that. But, at the moment, all gay characters are portrayed pretty negatively. They are either killed or miserable."

Finally I ask him about the most momentous thing that has happened this year, the right for gay couples to get married, as such. "Ah yes, but we can't get married, can we?" he says, raising an eyebrow. "The fight is not yet over. On the march, and at the RAH, we had many couples who have been through the ceremony, such as Elton John and David Furnish, and of course it is a step forwards.

"I see people like Antony Sher and Michael Cashman who have been with their partners for many years and it is truly wonderful that they are now legally able to make this commitment but..."

Then he sort of explodes. "It's so silly! Why can't we just call it a marriage. Why can't gay people marry like heterosexual people do? Now they have a law that is almost above and beyond heterosexuals who cannot have civil partnerships. It's just hedging bets, isn't it? If we have gay marriage then soon we can have gay divorce."

He's had two eight-year relationships - one that began when he was 25, with Brian Taylor, the drummer with the Tom Robinson Band; and, in his forties, with a stage director, Sean Matthias, who remains a good friend and directed him as Widow Twankey. "Oh, she's always desperate to get her old fishnets on," he says.

Does he think he will "get married"? "Not at the moment," he says. "If I thought I was in what felt like a longterm relationship then I would consider it. But it is a serious thing and nothing to be entered into lightly. I also like living on my own but I do worry that maybe, as I get older, I might get lonely.

"I am seeing someone, though. You know, we were walking back here the other night holding hands and this man came up and called us faggots and told us he had a gun underneath his coat and that I should give him my mobile phone. I said: 'I don't have a mobile phone', and he went away. In the past I would have thought that was a homophobic attack but now I don't really."

Why not? "I don't really know," he says a bit bemused. "Oh dear, maybe I'm just getting used to it all. What a terrible thought!"