Thus, many of the charges against the German leaders, while substantial enough, were hard to pin down as war crimes. Because of such doubts, some of the Allied leaders were against the whole idea of a war-crimes trial. Winston Churchill wanted the Nazi leaders to be shot out of hand, without trial, as outlaws who had put themselves beyond the reach of legal judgment. Stalin, on the other hand, did want trials, but conducted on the model of Soviet show-trials, with only a pretence of presentation of evidence. Only the Americans wanted a real trial, with a properly constituted defence and a possibility of acquittal.