"Listen," he said, his face about three inches from mine, his eyes bright and beady, his breath almost as heady as the beer itself. "I'm very worried about the future of cask ale. There's a whole raft of people who don't even know what it is. I was in the Old Sargeant in Garratt Lane the other day - do you know we've still got 40 pubs with public bars? - I always begin in the public bar, and there were four young 25-year-olds there. Builders, they were, working locally, over from East London somewhere. "This is the chairman," all the regulars said. "He'll buy you a drink." So I asked them what they'd like. "Stella. They all wanted Stella. I told them to try our Young's lager. One of them was leaning against the bar and he said, 'D'you know what I've never had in my life, and that's that cask ale stuff'. I bought him a pint of Ordinary, and he loved it, loved it. Everyone said it was just because it was free, but he was back there again with his own money the next day. Same again. People just need to try. They just need to stop drinking advertising, and start drinking beer. Do you know our cooper's retiring today? Forty years, he's done. Tom Woods. Retiring today."